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Newbie
Group: PB Employees
Last Login: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:25 AM
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| Hi everybody my name is Moyassar & and working in PB kuwait. I am working now on a big project , it is a 45 km road in the desert ,I already finish the whole model & i don't have a lot of objects to add there except cars and there are about 13 million polygons in the scene 8.5 milion of them are cars. my problem is the scene is not rendering at all if I merge the cars. and also i want i want to make it real as much as possible. My machine's processor is Intel Pentuim III Xeon processors (4 CPUs) 2.8 GHz with 6 MB RAM NVIDIA Geforce 9500 Gt 1024 MB i am using 3ds max 2009 and VRay for rendering please what is the best thing i can do in my situation ? and is it better to use render farm? I insert one image to show what's happening with me regards moyassar
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"old dog"
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| First question back to you: Are you running 64x OS? We are running 64X XP and still run into probelms with too much geometry in a scene depending on what it is. The problem you are facing with the cars is that they are not proxy objects. If you are using VRay, you can create proxy objects of each type of car that you have in the scene and then reuse those as instances. It will take far less processing to get your rendering. Start by merging in your cars from your lilbrary and then convert them to VRay Proxy objects. I would suggest the same for the HV towers... The attached Max Script (created by Tom) will be useful in applying the cars to paths on the road surfaces.
Glen Loyd
Lead Design Visualization Specialist | Parsons Brinckerhoff
www.pbprojectviz.com
 
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"old dog"
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Veteran
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Glen is right. If you aren't using XP 64 or another 64-bit OS (Vista, Windows7), along with the x64 version of MAX and Vray, you simply won't be able to render a scene that complex without serious changes to your rendering pipeline.
Glen is also right about the proxies. They are a life saver for repetative, high-poly geometry.
Just remember that you don't want to just create a single, large vray proxy, that would be very slow to render and wouldn't really help.
What you want is to create a proxy for each type of car. For example, you would have 1 proxy of a Toyota Camry, 1 proxy of a Hummer, 1 proxy of a BMW 330, then you instance or duplicate each of those proxies a hundred times. Now you have 300 cars in your scene, but only one car in memory. You can even assign different materials to each one so you can have 10 colors of each to help hide the repetition.
Also, the biggest eater of memory are the following:
*Textures
*Irradiance map/Light cache maps
Be sure to try and limit your texture usage. If you can do the same thing with a procedural textures, you should try (Brick, noise, etc.).
A good texture to start with is the background texture. This is often VERY large, especially if you're using 32-bit/HDR images. the ones we use are around 10,000x5000 pixels. At 32 bits, that's 1.5 gigs of RAM right there. Use a low res version for your renders, then render a separate background pass with just your map (no scene geometry) and composite them together. Viola!
As for the IR map and Light cache, try using a brute-force method (also known as the universal method)
Whew!
--Good luck
PS: Your image didn't load. I'd love to see it.
THOMAS SHANNON
SENIOR DESIGN VISUALIZATION SPECIALIST
PB Project Visualization
http://www.pbprojectviz.com/
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Member
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| you might also consider posting a link to your scene file in the PB secure area of the forum : http://www.pbviz.com/forum/Forum56-1.aspx There are many of us here that have years of experience making 'impossible-to-render' scenes render, and in many cases quite efficiently. One of the latest files I've been working on has several billion polygons (with a 'B') worth of trees and 1000's of animated cars (all via vray proxies) to go along with about 10 miles of detailed highway and parks through wetlands, lakes, and hilly terrain. All put together in a master scene from about 10 combined x-ref scenes, along with more GB of textures than I want to know, and we've got it down to rendering in about 10-20 minutes per frame for a 720p HD size image. granted, we're using 64-bit systems as Tom and Glen mentioned (which makes doing that way easier by comparison) but we didn't always have that luxury. If you don't have a ton of experience with VRay, a quick lookover by another set of eyes would probably be less painful than a general list of things to try and can quickly get you dialed in. Though I certainly encourage you to go over every bit of tutorial you can find on the web and here when you're not trying to get a project out the door  SJ
Steve JohnsonPBProject Visualization Technical Resource CenterE-Mail: johnsonste@pbworld.com...................................................................................................
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"old dog"
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Claudio Branch (12/15/2009)
SJohnson (12/15/2009)
...and we've got it down to rendering in about 10-20 minutes per frame for a 720p HD size image.
How were you able to achievesuch fast times for an HD formatted frame?
Any chance of seeing this animation?
Very fast machines with a lot of RAM 
THOMAS SHANNON
SENIOR DESIGN VISUALIZATION SPECIALIST
PB Project Visualization
http://www.pbprojectviz.com/
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Member
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Tom (12/15/2009)
Claudio Branch (12/15/2009)
SJohnson (12/15/2009)
...and we've got it down to rendering in about 10-20 minutes per frame for a 720p HD size image.
How were you able to achievesuch fast times for an HD formatted frame? Any chance of seeing this animation? Very fast machines with a lot of RAM yeah, no kidding. We bumped up most of our machines from 5GB (why they came with 5 specifically I'm not sure, seems like and odd number in the days of dual and triple channel DDR) to 12GB and it made a big difference. These are the videos from about 6 months ago (on youtube, so they've been fairly compressed by TPTB): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1ZQF6UIKos That one is rendered from 13 xreffed scenes in a master file. For geometry there's about 8 million polys in highway/terrain/signage/buildings/etc. About 800 fairly detailed (proxy) cars/busses/trucks for a total of about 120 million polys, and a total of around 45,000 (proxy) trees that add up to just over 1 billion polys. So altogether that's in the neighborhood of 1.2 billion total that's rendering in one pass out of Max/Vray. The only post is a bit of motion blur and atmosphere using the velocity and z-depth channels from an RPF output. Obviously as pure geometry that would never work, so the Vray proxies and instancing are the key. 3 more videos from the same project in a different part of the alignment (same camera path, 3 different options being considered by the DOT) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvMhyY3cRE4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_HDULojeHk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4biCHSyVIg which have similar polygon counts. The moral of the story being that anything is renderable, just takes a bit work SJ
Steve JohnsonPBProject Visualization Technical Resource CenterE-Mail: johnsonste@pbworld.com...................................................................................................
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Newbie
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Tom (12/14/2009)
You can even assign different materials to each one so you can have 10 colors of each to help hide the repetition.
Well I'm guessing you wrote some fancy script to randomly do this for you...and the reading I've been doing while attempting the switch to VRay leads me to this gnoub question: Are the material assignments essentially applied manually for each (all 300 instances in your example) proxy object? I understand that the .vrmesh holds no material info, apart from MatID, but can instances of proxy objects have different materials? Thanks!
Adam N. Dall Design Vizualization Specialist Philadelphia, PA
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"old dog"
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